Picked up an old bamboo rod by Heddon. Supposed to be a five weight. When casting, it looks okay in the air, but loses its energy on the forward cast. Won't turn over the leader. Also, will not roll cast. I'm assuming this is a line weight issue. The roll cast ends up in a pile about 15 feet out. Any suggestions or advice would be appreciated.

Thanks,
Byron

Is there any info written on the rod? Most old cane rods are more like 6/7 wt. If it truly is a lighter line rod it would have considerably more valuable. How about pictures?

Mike

Only writing on rod is on the swell. Heddon written diagonally around rod. Not concerned with value, just casting characteristics. Would an under-lined rod result in the lack of turn-over and roll cast pile-up? Camera inop at this time.

Thanks

The early Heddons were marked like yours, later ones had line size, ferrule size info. I would try a 6 and 7 wt line on it, you should feel it come alive with one of them. If you know someone with a couple of silk lines try them just for fun. A dual taper might work better also. Hope this helps, The other option would be to measure the taper and find a database of person familiar with Heddons. I'm sure someone here is much more knowledgeble than I. Should have asked how long the rod is. That can be a good indicator also.

Mike

What line are you using to roll cast? I have found that weight forward lines aren't worth a flip (no pun intended) for roll casting. Best lines are double taper or level, if anyone makes level any more.

Yes, using a lighter line than the rod was designed for could be the reason for the lack of turnover problem. This is the whole idea of having different line weights. You might be able to make that line work by learning to double haul but that's really not the proper approach to the problem. A heavier line probably is.

To add to what Don said, it's a matter of the physical mass of the line that is outside the tip. Most rod are rated at a specific distance, i.e. 5wt at 35'. Longer or shorter casting distances may require a different line, in this case, 6wt if fishing 20' to 25', and 4wt if fishing 50' to 60'. You could do the math to figure out how many grams of line you need to properly load the rod, but generally, we just switch lines until we find the right one.

...and yes, having too light a line, or too heavy a line, will cause the rod to fail to load properly. Also, I find that bamboo rods take a longer, more deliberate casting stroke than graphite rods do.

One thing I'd like to add... are you lawn casting? If you are, you cannot rollcast any rod on grass. The nature of the cast is that the rod will only load with the line on the water. It's the surface tension on the line that loads the rod. There's not enough friction on grass or any other surface that will replicate that.

Dave

Line sizes are based on the AFTMA Standards, which are a function of the weight of the first 30' of line. for example, the first 30' of a 6 wt line weighs appx. 160 grains, and they change by 20-25 gr. per size (5wt is appx. 140 gr, 7wt is 185gr, etc.). The rods are labeled such to be able to adequately load and unload (assuming that the cast is properly made) on this basis. There is probably one of two things going on in your situation.

The first is, as you proposed, that the line is too light (undersized). This can be easy to check by casting a longer length of line, say 40 - 45'. That will provide the additional needed weight. Normally you would lengthen you casting stroke to accommodate this addition line (longer casts require a longer casting stroke, lest a tailing loop), but in this experiment, you want try different line lengths using the same stroke length. In effect, you are changing the length of the line until you fund the weight of line that the rod is designed for. If it corrects the problem than that's your answer - go to a heavier line. You could mark that length of line (from what's outside the rod tip, to the end of the forward taper, which is usually about 5' from the end of the line) and take it to your local fly shop and ask them to weigh it for you. Umpqua make a line scale just for that purpose and it cost about $20. It's a handy thing to have if you mess with lines at all. However, if you buy the new line form them they will probably weigh it as a free service. btw, I agree with those who suggest a double taper, especially for roll casting. Here is a link to chart of the fly line sizes and their respective weights. AFTMA Fly Line Size-Wt Chart

The second possibility may have to do with your casting style. If you are not accustomed to casting a slower, rod, i.e. a Heddon Black Beauty, then there's a chance that you are not stopping the rod with a positive stop. This takes a little practice with a rod as different from graphite, as a 9' Heddon Black Beauty. An indicator of this problem may show up in your back cast. You didn't mention weather , or not, you get full turn over in the back cast. If you are, then it's a problem in your forward stroke (stop). If you are not getting a full turn over in the back cast, then you will have slack in your line when you pull through the forward stroke, depriving the line the energy required to turn over properly.

This is sort of difficult to diagnose without seeing the cast, but if you have a certified casting instructor in your area, they can help you identify the issue. There is link to a directory of all FFF CCIs on the FFF website FFF-CCI Website. Or, if you can video your cast, I'll gladly look at it tell you what I think. Otherwise, come fishing on the White River in Cotter, (North Central Arkansas), where I live, and we can fish, cast, and talk "bamboo".

Also, Look to see if there is a designation such as HDH, or D, or some other letter-type marking. This is the old standard line size that refers to line dia. and is often found on rods that were made during the silk line era. H line refers to .025" dia, D = .045, thus, HDH is a double taper line that tapers from .025" to .045", then back down to .025". There's no exact correlation form the old system to the new because the modern lines aren't all the same diameter for any given weight. But, you can get close enough to at least find a starting point to do the test I suggested, above.


I hope this helps,

Denis Dunderdale

With any rod, but with bamboo particularly, the proper line for any given rod is the line that works best on it for you. It is not uncommon for two different fishermen to prefer different lines on different rods. Difference in casting styles and fishing situations can make a big difference in bamboo. It is also quite common for the majority of folks who own a particular rod, to agree on a line weight that is different from what the manufacturer recommended.
The bottom line is, only you can determine the best line and you can only do that by casting.
Once you become a total bamboo crank, you will discover the insane world of special line tapers and once you start fishing silk on bamboo --- well at that point it is all over.
Enjoy the ride
AgMD

Thanks for all the great responses.

Byron