Looking very nice indeed Testwood, well done.

Hi all,
does anyone have plans for a wood plaining form? i don't have the money for a "real" set of forms but would love to try the PMQ. also, how do you make the taper? it is some what unclear (at least to me) how the form works. do you adjust the form or the block plane? thanks

No forms are needed. All you need is a set of calipers to measure with and a block plane. I put a strip of masking tape down on my bench and mark 5" intervals. I then write the tip measurements in red and the butt dimensions in black. Then lay your strip down next to the tape and transfer the 5" interval marks to the side of your bamboo strips. I set my plane to take about .005" a pass and start planing. I continually check my measurements at the 5" intervals and compare them with my taper chart or the numbers written on the tape. Once I get to within .005" at each station, I either use a cabinet scraper to get to the final dimensions or readjust my block plane to take ~.002" and finish up. I find that using the cabinet scraper gets more accurate dimensions because the length of the sole of the plane will sometimes prohibit you from planing certain parts of the strip due to the taper of the rod. Do this to both strips and then glue together. I've found that gluing and clamping to a piece of angle iron is the best way. I tried binding the strips and heat curing in my oven but I ended up with twists in the blank which were hard to get out.

Thanks Timmy - Looking forward to meeting up after Christmas. Changing the subject. I am convinced that when using your pouring method for varnish you actually sweeps any loose dust and fluff off the rod during the pouring operation, in fact it is difficult to imagine how it could stay on there. Basically you are washing the surface down. Makes it important to strain the varnish between sessions.
Cheers

when did you take of the enamel?

My process is usually split, node work (file, straighten, flatten, press, etc.), plane pith away, heat treat, remove enamel, plane to half dimensions, glue, clamp to angle iron, plane to final dimensions, straighten as much as possible. After that it is just a matter of installing hardware and finishing in which ever order you think is better for you. The reason I remove the enamel so early is because I want the strips to be laying as flat as possible on the workbench when I start planing them. To remove the enamel, I'll do a combination of plane with the block plane taking only the smallest shaving possible, scraper, and sandpaper. Remove the least amount of material possible.

Like the rest of the people on the board, I do what works for me. You just have to get your tools out and start playing. It is playing. It is fun and it need not be overly technical until you get the basics down. Have fun and enjoy the process and try not to overthink every step. I say that only because we all do. We read and read and read some more before we start a new process. Then we do it and realize it wasn't all that hard and we actually learn something. Then we go back and read some more and try it a little different the next time and after a while you kind of find the way that suits your style. I have only been at this since my birthday in mid August, but so far I have split cane at least three different ways, tried planing wet strips and dry strips, pressing nodes, not pressing nodes, straightening nodes with a heat gun, straightening nodes with an alcohol lamp, heat treating by flaming the pith side, heat treating with a heat gun oven, binding by hand, binding with a garrison style binder, gluing with titebond III, gluing with Urac, heat curing Urac in the oven, letting it cure without heat, varnishing with a balloon and bottle, varnishing with a turkey baster, varnishing with a drip tube, and a few others but I'll spare you the details. After my busy four months of experimentation, each way has proven successful. I just took a different road each time. One day I'll find the path I enjoy the most and so will you. But for now, wander in the general direction and soon enough you will end up at a river with a rod in hand.

thanks for all the input. when you mount the guides do they go on the enamel side or on the side that has the glue?

thanks

I have only mounted them on the enamel side. I read somewhere on this board or somewhere else that people that have mounted them on the glue line side, that it tends to twist the rod when bent under line pressure or fishing pressure.

I would most definitely put them on the enamel side.Somebody in the forum put the rings on the planed side and the rod was all over the place. Also before you decide which of the enamel sides to put the rings on, assemble the rod sections and sight along the rod to try and find the 'natural' bend in the rod. Turn the top section through 180 degrees and sight along again, you will most likely find that one way is better than the other. Good luck.

Joined the forum in July 07 and have had a great time getting into cane rods starting with PMQ's have had a real ball and could not resist making a rod rod rack to flaunt my 6 months work in my den, why hide them away when they have given so much pleasure to make and fish ?.
Anyhow for what its worth-

Right to left - 5'10" Lee Wulff one piece ( hanging on the side)
Edwards Quad 7ft 4wt
Payne 100 7'6" 4wt
George Maurer 7' 4wt
Not Shown Garrison 206 made for eldest son for Xmax
Catternach 7' 4wt HEX part finished (rod now finished awaiting varnishing !!!!!) using my experimental Plexiglas forms. They work, just need some more develoment work.
One of my sons gave me two 5' lengths of 3/4" key steel at Christmas, next stop a bench drill I expect !.

Could'nt resist another pic. Thanks to you lads who have been so helpful with you great posts and advice.

Great looking group of rods

I think a much larger rod rack (made of bamboo of course) is in order.

Very nice.

Cheers



P.S. I'm convinced this thread is evil and will one day lead me down a very dark path.

You guys are just great, you have taken this to whole new level, at this rate we will have enough PMQers to hold a convention. I also must say I was not the one to start all of this I got the idea from Jamie Carona as he was posting his PMQ build, but I am glad I got on the quad squad just the same.
Cheers Ron.

That is a very impressive set of rods completed since July! I thought I was the only one going over board.

I have enjoyed making the PMQ's. So far since August of '07, I have built a 7'6" 3pc 3wt of Wayne Cattanach, a 6' 3wt Cattanach, a 6'6" 3wt Cattanach, a 6' 2wt Nunley Sunfish, and a 7' 5wt Garrison 201E all built on the PMQ basis and I have enjoyed making all of them. Not all of these are finished but all have been test casted. Once I get my steel forms done, I'm sure I will focus more on hexes and then on to my quad forms, but for now, my time is devoted to the PMQ!

Hi gmreeves - I feel the same way about PMQ's. I enjoy making them and fishing them,especially dry fly.
Like I said my son has bought me some steel to make some adjustable final forms. I really will start when the weather warms up, my old bones dont like standing in a garage with a thick frost about. I have an engineering background so dont have an excuse to get going.
Rarely does a visit to the forum (most days) fail to give me some ideas. Yesterday it was painting plastic tubing to give a custom finish to your rod tube ,
great idea.

I am just curious to know if there are any tips or ways to ensure when you are planing the final taper that your block plan remains 90 degrees to the enamel side??

Charlie - I cant offer any magic tips. Because we dont have a forms for this operation this is the most demanding part of making a PMQ. All I can say is the more you practice the better you get . What I would say is take it steady and make frequent checks, once you get one side reasonably square you are up and running. Perhaps someone else has got some tips. Good Luck

...and I got busy and forgot all about this question. My humblest apologies.

Basically, what Testwood said. The plane and the flat surface you are working on are your best guides. When you set your plane on the strip, you should be able to see if the plane is level relative to the flat surface. As you plane, just watch that level. I sometimes slip the tips of my fingers down the sides of the plane so they lightly brush the bench. That will help me keep from pressing to hard on one side or the other. Mostly, though, it's just a matter of working carefully, and paying close attention. As long as you take your time and keep each cut as square as possible, the end result will be square enough.

How did I miss this question? I must have fell asleep at work . . .

Anyway, like the above said, slow and steady. I use my fingers as well letting them hang off the edge of the plane lightly rubbing the work bench to kind of keep it balanced and level. The first thing I do after gluing the blank is to square up the other side using a vise and the plane. I lightly clamp the glued up section in the vise to keep it steady and then carefully square up the edge. I continue to move the blank through the vice until I have the whole section square on one edge. Then the other edge is easier to square up. The best is advice I can give while trying to correct or start a square is a SHARP plane iron. If the iron isn't sharp, you will only make the angle worse.

Great thread. I have got some boo, an old 9 1/2 and some other nessessities and now all I need is some time. I am sure I will have a wack of questions for you all, but here is one that has occurred to me already:

How do you ream a grip for a quad? Round? Square? If square, how is best to do that?

You can't put a square peg in a round hole. The only sensible thing to me is to make the square peg round. I glue some shims to the sides of the blank in the grip area, and then round them up. I try not to add enough to qualify as a swelled butt, but I suppose there is a bit of a swelled butt effect, that makes for a stiffer action in the grip area.

I use a standard round reamer or rat tail file. I check the fit often, and when it is getting close you can give it shove, the cork will give and form a tight seal around the squard bamboo. Give it a try.

Jamie

Hi Jamie, Thats how I do it except I use a sandpaper strip stuck round an old fibre glass rod section with double sided tape to open up the hole in the grip. Stick it with Araldite. Sorted.

Well..this has taken the mystery out of the PMQ for me. Sounds like that might be my first rod. Now to find a 5 WT taper

Hi - Today is my 75th Birthday. It was this thread on building PMQs by phg that got me started into cane rod making in July 07 , am now on my third hex: and a load of PMQs. I have a large family and now find I have a back order of 5 rods true.
My eldest son has just gived me a copy of ' A Masters Guide to Building A Bamboo Fly Rod' by Garrison and Carmichael, what a wonderful present, something to treasure.
My thanks to the many people who have helped me via this forum. Having given up, golf bamboo rod making has given me a new addiction, there are similarities, you are always trying to better your previous effort.
There are not many hobbies where at 75 you are looking forwards and not backwards and trying to invent new way of doing things. Timmy was kind enough to give me silk fly line which I am in the process of dressing.
Imagine !! Bamboo rod, silk line and home dressed fly MAGIC.

Many happy returns Testwood. Glad you like the line, How's it coming on?
I'll try to give you a ring tomorrow.
Tim.

Thanks Timmy - The silk line is comming along fine. I followed your advice and am beginning to build up a surface using Linseed Oil.
Hope your rods are progressing OK.
Nev

How much do you off set the nodes when gluing the strips together? I like the looks of a darker flamed rod verses a blonde. How much can you safely flame the enamel to obtain a darker color, if you also heat treat with a flame?

I would error on the light side, if you over do it you will cook the fibers, remember if you flame the rod it will be darker after you get a finish on it, but Bamboo does seem to be able to take a fair amount of heat before it is damaged, it will burn you if you touch it when it is hot.
I think with hindsight as my first rod it was a little overecooked an it was weakened a little, lucky for me the over cooked part ended up in the handle under the cork and did not weaken the rod in the end.
Cheers Ron.

Hi - 3" offset seems reasonable, try to keep as big a space as you can from the tip down to the first node.
Good luck

It's a bit surprising how difficult it is, with only 2 strips, to get a good node spacing. I don't want nodes near the ferrule, and I like the last 8" to 10" of the tip to be nodeless (I'd like 12" - 15" even better.) A node, or even a pair of nodes inside the handle or reel seat area is a non-issue, as is a node that is completely inside the ferrule. Ideally, I'd like each node to be 1/2 way between 2 nodes on the other strip, but it never works out that way, so I juggle and get the maximum distance I can within the above guidelines.

In general, though, I'd say the minimum is a 3" spacing.

When you plane a PMQ strip and get the right dimension at station number 60, for an example.
Do you start start planning directly after the 60" station or do you start planning att the 55" station?



It's hard to explain what I mean because I don't speak English so much, but I hope you understand what I mean anyway.

No one?


If you don't understand what I mean, please explain how you plane. Explain it like you were talking to a little kid.

I plane from butt to tip.

Here is how I plane out the individual PMQ strips. I lay a piece of tape down on my work bench the length of the strip. I make a mark on the tape at the 5" marks. I then right the dimension above each mark. I then lay the strip down next to the tape and transfer the mark to the side of the strip for each 5" increment. Then, I take the calipers and measure the thickness of the strip at each 5" station and subtract the desired dimension from the thickness. Then I write how much over I am on the pith side of the strip. After I have done each staion this way, I can see how much I need to take off down the length of the strip.

For example, station 0 or the tip needs to be .030 and the thickness of the strip at that station is .070. I
subtract .030 from .070 and get .040. I write down .040 down on the pith side directly over the station mark on the side of the strip. The top of the strip will look something like this:

.040 .045 .040 .035 .030 .050 .045 .045 .050

I will then take my plane which is set to take off .005" shavings and knock off the high spots. In the above example, I will make a short pass over each of the .050 stations. In theory they should be .045 above now and you will no longer see the .050 penciled in. If you do, make another pass. Then I will make a pass over all the stations that read .045 and the previous stations that don't have a mark. In the above example, I would hit the right 4 in a single pass and the second from the left in a short 5" pass over the station. In theory those stations should now only be .040 above the dimensions. Now Pass the plane over all of the stations that read .040. In the example above, right four and the left three. In theory those stations should now only be .035. Continue like this until in theory, all stations should be the same thickness down the length of the strip. In this case it would be .030. I would then take 3 or 4 full length passes which should get it down to about .010 above the final dimensions. Now take all your measurements. Theory always doesn't work out and you will more often than not still be about .20 above but you should be closer to the taper. It will probably look more like this:

.015 .020 .020 .020 .025 .020 .020 .020 .015

Repeat the above steps. I use the plane until I get all stations down to about .003 over and then use a sanding block or a scraper blade to finish off the strips.

It may sound harder than it actually is. It is very simple and works for me.

That was the answer I was hoping for, I can't thank you enough.

Sure you can. Post a pictures in the Bamboo Rod Showcase when you finish!

Will do.

Next month when I'll get some money I'm gonna buy the tools I need and then start building... I hope.

I've search the forum but I haven't found a list over what tools you need to build a PMQ.

A plane (Which one?)

A propane torch

A lot of clamps for the glueing

A Caliper

Sanding block

What else do I need?

There are a couple ways to go about it.

1. Bare minimum: Block Plane Stanley 9 1/2, Sanding Block, and Calipers. You don't necessarily have to have a bunch of clamps for gluing. You could spread the glue and bind them together with thread, kite string, fishing line, etc and then weight the strips with a bunch of books or cinderblocks or anything heavy. you don't have to have a propane torch unless you want to flame the cane.

2. Or if you are planning on building more than one rod and eventually build a hex, you can get more involved. You need a heat gun or an alcohol lamp, a file, and a vice for dealing with the nodes. You could go ahead and build a heat gun oven for heat treating. You can buy a bunch of spring clamps and a piece of angle iron to clamp the glued up strips to make it straighter after glue up. The options are endless.

The best option is to purchase a book and reat it and go back and read all of the posts currently in this thread and the other PMQ threads and they pretty much explain everything you need to do and all of the materials/tools you will need. The great thing about a PMQ is the ease of it. The hardest part is getting started. Try not to worry about all of the details. It is only as hard as you make it out to be.

How do I get out the moisture from the cane without flaming the inside of the culm?

And if I don't need a heat gun, how do I deal with the nodes? Just sand them so they become flat?

Like I said, you can go about it two ways. The bare bones way or you can get more involved. There are benefits to doing things the more involved way but if you are wanting to build a rod and can't afford all of the tools to do it properly, you can still build one that will cast and catch fish. It may take a set and it may not be as stiff as a heat treated rod but it will still cast and catch fish. Nodes are a whole other story. Yes you can just sand them flat and be done with it. You will have to be careful that your iron is sharp so you don't get any tear out but you want a sharp iron anyway.

All this being said, this is not the way I would recommend doing it if you could afford to get more tools and materials. Of course if you afford to go buy a heat gun, get one. If you buy a heat gun, and can afford some stove pipe (about $20-30$), build a heat gun oven for heat treating. Then you can heat treat your strips and deal with the nodes properly. The heat gun also comes in handy while trying to straighten the blank after you have finished planing. Simply put, if you can afford to do it the time tested way, do it. If you still want to build a rod but can't afford to do it the time tested way, improvise.

I've search the forum and have found that a heat gun oven seems to be a easy way to heat treat the cane.

But do you heat treat the culm first and then split it and plane it?

Or do you split the culm and then heat treat the strips and after that you plane the strips?

Maybe it doesn't matter how you do, the important thing is that you just get the bamboo heated....




And I've just found out that I can't start building yet because my dad needs the space in our garage when he is building the sauna and bathroom in our basement, so I must wait until he is finished

generally, you heat treat the cane after it has been split. If, however, you want a dark rod you can blacken the outside with a torch before you split it. if you are not able to make an oven you can torch the inside of the cane until the pith burns away and it will perform the same task as heat treating it. I believe there is a post somewhere here on flaming the inside of the culm.

Thank you.

A file is cheap. Get a 6" or 8" Mill Bastard file and use it to file down the nodes (on the outside.) I then use a heat gun to heat the nodes and press them in a 6" wood vise. You could use almost any heat source for this, though. A smooth jawed vise is a necessity, though.

To get the moisture out, I use a heat-gun oven, so the heat gun does double duty. A propane torch is less expensive, though, and there is a detailed explanation on how to use the torch to dry and heat treat the cane somewhere on this board. I think it was Daryl Hayashida that wrote it. Here's thread that will link you to that and some other discussions: http://www.rodbuildingforum.com/index.php?...ic=14605&hl

Getting 20 spring clamps is a bit expensive, but that really is the best way to clamp the glue up. Some people have used binder clips, which are cheaper, but they are also weaker. I tried to hand bind my first rod, and quickly gave up, it just wasn't working. Since the glue hadn't set yet, I pried the strips apart, washed off the glue, and tried again with spring clips.

By the way, I don't have a workshop either. I take the strips out on the back porch to work on, and put them away when I'm done. I have a handful of tools, but no permanent work location. My first rod was built in 2 week working about 30 minutes a day.

I'm really starting to look forward to the day when I can start building

How often do you need to sharpen the blade on the plane?

Mikko,

Sharpen your blade as often as you think you need it. Old Stanley blades as well as Lie-Nielsen, Hock, and Lee Valley blades keep their edge for quite a while. New Stanley blades have a high amount of Chromium which makes them softer, and thus dull faster. I tend to touch up the blade after every strip or two. I believe once the burr on the edge of the blade is flipped or worn away it is no longer sharp enough to shave the bamboo well.

If you soak your strips, you can get much longer use between sharpening. Since this is a PMQ, I would say you can sharpen twice, once to rough out the strips and once more as you are finishing it out.

Scott

Thanks for the great answer Scott

More questions.


When you change a hex taper to fit a PMQ, you multiply with 0.93 or something like that, right?
But if you start with a taper that already is a quad (4 strip), do you need to multiply the numbers with something when making a 2 strip quad?

I hope you understand what I'm saying.



And BTW, I have bought a plane