I'll apologize in advance if this question has already been asked. I'm just getting started buying/building tools. Haven't built my first rod, yet. But I'm confuse on the heat treating thing. Are ovens used for heat treating only when the flaming is not done, or can they both be used to heat treat the cane. I have the Golden Witch DVD, and it describes using one or the other. But I have other sources that suggest they are used in combination.

Just want to know if I am wasting my time and money building an oven if I also plan on flaming.

Thanks,

Karl

They are often used in conjunction as flaming doesn't completely remove all the moisture from the cane. But when you heat treat flamed cane you will have to take into account that the cane has already been partially tempered.

Mark

Many of us that make flamed rods use flaming as our ONLY heat treatment. No offense, but I don't necessarily agree with the above statement.

So it seems there is some difference of opinion on this one. After watching two DVDs (Golden Witch and Cattanach), it appears that there is a lot of variation in the way the flaming is done. In one case, it is a very slow process where the temperature of the cane is brought up gradually and uniformly. In the other case, it is a much quicker process that greatly darkens the enamel but doesn't necessarily heat the culm all the way through and drive out all of the moisture.

To me, it's sort of like roasting a marshmallow. One approach is to cook it slowly over coals until the outside is a golden brown and the inside is totally soft. The other approach is to torch quickly over an open flame, turning the outside black but leaving the inside hard.

Is it reasonable to say that if flaming is done slowly so that the whole culm is heated to a uniform temperature, heat treating in an oven is not necessary, but if flaming is done quickly to simply impart some color to the outside and perhaps a little tempering, then additional heat treating in an oven may be required?

Thanks again. Just trying to figure it out. In the end, I will probably try different things and settle on what works best for me.

Karl

I think your final sentence is the answer. There are just too many variables among various makers to give you a definitive answer--Larry

The cane's moisture content will return to equilibrium with its environment - at least as much as it can. Tempering alters the cane's ability to draw up moisture. If the cellular structure isn't changed to prevent the absorbtion of moisture, then it doesn't really do much. So either oven or flame, unless you change the ability of the cane to draw up moisture it will not be effective.

flaming is mostly a cosmetic though it does temper the outer layers. Heat tempering via an oven is a way of driving out moisture ( arguable in importance unless you plane your strips wet with a morgan mill ) as well, and more importantly, to straighten the bamboo strips by binding them to each other with string tightly. I live in a dry climate in colorado, but if I lived in a humid place, I would place more importance on driving out of moisture. Unless you heat treat, then plane and glue and finish it very fast, the boo will obsorb moisture back fairly quickly dependent upon humidity. Thirdly, it does temper the bamboo and make it flex a little faster according to most data that I have seen. there is little doubt from most folks that even if you do flame boo, it is a good idea to heat temper it as well for the above reasons.

When one only flames the bamboo, what temperature does the bamboo reach? Is it uniform on the outside and inside of the culm? Is it consistent within a few degrees from one end of the culm to the other? Does the bamboo maintain that uniform temperature long enough to assure that the changes in structure we seek from heat treating occur? Are you able to achieve any straightening of the inter-nodal sweeps through flaming alone?

I've made over 200 bamboo rods. Only 3-4 of them have been completely blonde -- no flaming at all. But every single one of them has been oven tempered. Heat treating thoroughly, consistently, and uniformly is an absolutely essential step in making a good bamboo rod. It's important enough to me that I often offer to heat treat strips for oven-less friends.


My $.02,

Harry

I have to agree with everything Harry says. I have built both flamed and blond rods. My experience is that flaming doesn't really help me straighten the sweeps. After binding and heat treating the strips they come out with a very light curving uniform sweep and the strips are nice and straight. If I flame before planing, the strips are much harder and I run into some chipping from time to time. Because I plane my strips to plus 0.010 inch over size before heat treating I find that the blond rods shrink more than the flamed ones and the flamed ones are more difficult to plane.

I personally don't believe that flaming alone will drive out the molecular moisture in the bamboo so I would recommend using an oven to get an evenly applied heat to the bamboo and ensure that all of the moisture has been driven out.

Cheers!

Arne

Yeah, what Harry said. You might want to read this http://www.powerfibers.com/html/bamboo_in_...laboratory.html
There are lots of oven designs, even flame heated pipe designs, but I'm not aware of any high volume commercial makers that trust the direct heat from a torch to make consistently great rods. Its not about drying the cane out, but the permanent changes at the cellar level by high temperatures.

I'm with Harry on this one. I've built a little over 800 rods, about 80% of them have been flamed to some extent, whether very lightly or dark. EVERY rod I've ever made has also been oven tempered. A lot have already gone over this, but IMHO, flaming does more cosmetic good than it does structural good. Also, how do you control flaming... very hard to do. If you want a consistent temper from rod to rod, then you should, again IMO, oven temper every rod you make, flamed or not.

Bob

I started using Darryl Hyshida's method of flaming the inside of the culm after it has been split and the dams removed. One thing is for sure. I can split my strips much better after the intial flaming. After the rough planing I also oven temper them in Harry's fixtures to get them good and straight.

If it was good enough for Darryl, its good enough for me. Sorry, I am sure I butchered Darryl's last name .

Pete