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A few observations on destructive testing.


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#1 Carlin

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Posted 11 March 2007 - 04:02 PM

Some of you may recall that a friend of mine who received as a gift a bamboo rod last summer, then promptly sent said rod for a week long sojourn to the bottom of the Kenai river. Here is the original post on the condition of the rod after its return.

http://www.rodbuildi...?...ost&p=80482

After letting it sit in the drying cabinet for a couple weeks, I took it out to do some minor refurbish work and get it ready to fish again. Here are a few observations taken along the way.

After taking the rod out of the drying cabinet I found that it was a bit snappier than when it went in. Presumedly this is because of the cane drying out.

Most of the guides were slightly loose, yet the wraps showed no visible signs of varnish damage. The assumption is that the rod soaked up a significant amount of water, swelled and this stretched out the guide wraps. When the cane dried and shrunk, the wraps remained a tad loose.

Though there were quite a few scratches and dings along the rod, the varnish showed no signs of damage from the expansion and contraction of the cane.

The reel seat (stabilized) had swollen enough so that the sliding band wouldn't come off. After drying it too had returned to normal.

The slow cure epoxy that I used to glue on the butt cap had released and is obviously not up to the task of submersion and expansion.

Without doing any other prep to the rod besides some minor sanding to clean it up, I dipped the rod and gave it 2 coats of spar varnish. The wraps were initially color preserved with Varathane, but after being dipped they soaked up varnish as if they had no CP at all on them. Most of the wraps turned color fairly consistently, with just a few showing splotchiness akin to wraps that aren't properly CP'd.

After dipping, only a few of the guides were still loose. I assume the finish soaked into the wraps and helped seal the thread and guide feet to the blank.

I gave the rod back several weeks ago, and after catching a half dozen trout in the mid 20" range, the male ferrule came loose. The ferrules were glued with JB Weld. There was no damage to the cane or ferrule, the bond just let go. The female is still holding strong and I just finished reglueing the male.

The rod seems to take a set easier now. Again, after a number of 22-26" trout, both the tip and butt showed a slight set. They straightened easily enough, but I can't help think that there was some sort of permanent damage to the cane..

The rod is going back out to do some more fishing in a couple of days. It'll be interesting to see how it continues to hold up, and also how it works in below zero temperatures.

Chris

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#2 mhackney

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Posted 11 March 2007 - 06:58 PM

Chris, it was an amazing story when you told it and it is even more amazing now!

How did you dry it, was it to a controlled moisture content or ??

cheers,
Michael
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#3 Carlin

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Posted 11 March 2007 - 07:06 PM

To dry it I simply stuck it in my drying cabinet at around 80* and 20 humidity for a couple weeks.

Chris

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#4 mhackney

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Posted 11 March 2007 - 07:25 PM

80* shouldn't have affected the integrity of the adhesives so it must have been the moisture that affect the butt cap. the fact that the rod is fishable at all is amazing in and of itself!

cheers,
Michael
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#5 chip node

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Posted 12 March 2007 - 08:12 AM


Chris,

What glue did you use for the splines? Sounds like it held well. Any thoughts why it's taking a set? Do you think it might be moisture related? Could it be that it still retains water after two weeks in an 80 degree hot box? Another couple of weeks/month of drying out might be all it needs? Tim

#6 wvangler

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Posted 12 March 2007 - 08:16 AM

"Ooooh, look at that bamboo rod." Wanna cast it? "Oh no, I'd probably break it." huh.gif

Awesome story. I thought we weren't supposed to fish bamboo in the rain, else risk it getting wet and disintegrating. wink.gif

#7 Fly1

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Posted 12 March 2007 - 10:24 AM

Depending on the glue used I may done a couple hours of drying at 220 F to drive out the last of the moisture. Still the fact it still fishable says alot in it's self. Still an amazing story.
Ken cool.gif
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#8 Carlin

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Posted 12 March 2007 - 12:49 PM

QUOTE
What glue did you use for the splines?

This rod was glued up with Titebond III - pretty impressive for a one part, water based glue!

QUOTE
Any thoughts why it's taking a set? Do you think it might be moisture related? Could it be that it still retains water after two weeks in an 80 degree hot box? Another couple of weeks/month of drying out might be all it needs?

I don't really know. It certainly could be that it isn't fully dry, though I suspect that isn't the case. Besides being in the drying cabinet for several weeks, it also sat in my shop for an additional 6 weeks before I got around to refinishing it; though fairly cool at around 50*, the shop is very low humidity. Certainly could be a moisture issue though. I'm also not discounting the possibility that the glue has something to do with it. I mean, 'waterproof' doesn't necessarily mean being submerged for a week. dunno.gif

QUOTE
Awesome story. I thought we weren't supposed to fish bamboo in the rain, else risk it getting wet and disintegrating.

hysterical.gif Yep, I love that one.

Another side note is I was very careful to tell the recipient, on both occasions where he received the rod, ready-to-fish wink.gif , to not be careful at all with it. I left out any mention of twisting the rod while fighting or landing fish and each time said this exact phrase: "I don't want to see this rod again unless it is in pieces or I'm on the river with you when you're fishing it." So far, he's been true to his word! laugh.gif

Chris

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#9 DHayashida

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Posted 12 March 2007 - 02:53 PM

As much as I detest impregnated rods, I got to admit I would like to see how an impregnated rod would stand up to a week long soaking.

Darryl

#10 germanbrown

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Posted 12 March 2007 - 05:18 PM

wow. that's awesome chris. thanks for the update - a great testament to bamboo as a rod material.
"A three or four ounce split bamboo rod, with a well balanced reel, a tapered casting line, a leader of the proper fineness, and a well tied fly, or flies, is one of the most perfectly designed and executed triumphs of human artisanship."

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#11 canerodscom

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Posted 12 March 2007 - 11:57 PM

Darryl,

Did you read the results of David Bolin's tests with impregnated rods vs varnished rods and weight gain from moisture absorption? He sent a note to the Rodmakers List today. David is quite precise and very methodical, and a smart guy on top of that. His findings were basically that the Ship N Shore impregnation method adds almost zero resistance to moisture re-uptake.

Harry
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#12 DHayashida

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Posted 13 March 2007 - 10:04 AM

QUOTE(canerodscom @ Mar 12 2007, 11:57 PM) View Post

Darryl,

Did you read the results of David Bolin's tests with impregnated rods vs varnished rods and weight gain from moisture absorption? He sent a note to the Rodmakers List today. David is quite precise and very methodical, and a smart guy on top of that. His findings were basically that the Ship N Shore impregnation method adds almost zero resistance to moisture re-uptake.

Harry


I just read that post. Interesting, I would have thought impregnating would have stopped water from soaking in. So there are even less advantages to impregnate, at least with Daly's Ship and Shore mix. Perhaps other impregnating processes work better.

Darryl

#13 Carlin

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Posted 13 March 2007 - 11:22 AM

Also note that whatever stabilization process was used by Bellinger on the reel seat insert didn't stop that from absorbing moisture and swelling either. dunno.gif

Chris

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#14 Carlin

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Posted 13 March 2007 - 12:34 PM

Here is an interesting snippet from a paper entitled "Dimensional Stabilization of Wood in Use":

QUOTE
Another treatment that can be considered as an internal coating is the impregnation of nonswelling monomers which are then polymerized in the void structure of the wood. Because little or no wood swelling takes place upon treatment, very little of the polymerized chemical enters the cell wall. Treatment of wood with methyl methacrylate followed by heat or radiation polymerization is an example of a lumen fill or internal coating treatment (3). Polymer loadings over 100 weight percent gain (WPG) have been achieved. Because the lumen structure is filled, the rate of water uptake is greatly reduced. If the wood is exposed to water vapor or liquid long enough, swelling occurs to approximately the same extent as untreated wood.

Chris

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