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Easy hollowing


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#1 Carlin

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Posted 10 January 2007 - 01:56 PM

Having not yet found or made the perfect jig for hollow fluting (though Shamburg has helped in that regard wink.gif ) I still wanted to make up a hollowbuilt, faster action rod for an upcoming trip. A while back I experimented with hollow scalloping and had decent success, except for a glue snafu, so I tried the same technique again and got pretty darn good results.

What I did was very simple. First I planed, taped and then opened up the butt and mid section of the rod, laid them flat on the bench, then marked off the areas that I wanted to scallop in roughly 1" increments, leaving an inch or two before the ferrule station un-hollowed, as well as the area directly under the 2" swell (swelled butt rod) and a bit more space between a few of the stations to adjust for more consistent flexing.

I clamped the 6 strips to the bench and using a 1 1/2" drum sander mounted in my hand drill, and simply sanded down the section until I estimated the wall section to be about .070" (a bit thicker under the butt as I had to turn it down - see below).
user posted image

After checking the wall thickness and sanding a bit more, I continued on to the next area. I was surprised at how easy it was to approximate the dimensions using an 80 grit wheel. When you get down into the real dense power fibers near the outside of the strips, the sanding wheel works very slowly and hardly removes any material at all. I'd estimate it took me a bit less than 10 minutes to scallop each rod section (only the butt and mid).

You can see the scalloping on the two laid out sections on the top of the photo:
user posted image

Here is a shot of the butt section before being turned down:
user posted image

And after:
user posted image

Notice the smaller hollow area inside from where I sanded down the apexes a little more than normal to leave it hollow, yet preserve the scalloping.

One thing to mention is that after sanding there were lots of small fuzzies along the scalloped areas. To remove those I took an old piece of cork and simply rubbed it back and forth. This cleaned up all the fuzzies and the blank glued up without any gaps or glue lines.

When I glued up, using URAC, I took a foam brush and wiped out any excess glue from the scallops before I bound the section.

I do want to mention that the results weren't perfect as the drum sander wanted to move around a little while spinning, but after the first few I got the hang of how to hold it so the results got better and more consistent as I progressed. I wouldn't expect to get perfectly repeatable results using this method, but from the test casting in the yard yesterday (in -20F weather! laugh.gif ) it was worth the effort and definitely made a noticeable difference in weight and the rod's 'snappiness'. And it was easy!

Chris

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#2 timmy

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Posted 10 January 2007 - 02:29 PM

Thanks, Chris, You've done it again. I've been wondering about hollowing that way for a long spider/loch rod I want. Now I've no excuses. biggrin.gif


Tim

#3 germanbrown

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Posted 10 January 2007 - 04:31 PM

sweet!!

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"A three or four ounce split bamboo rod, with a well balanced reel, a tapered casting line, a leader of the proper fineness, and a well tied fly, or flies, is one of the most perfectly designed and executed triumphs of human artisanship."

-Bliss Perry

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#4 matsoberg

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Posted 10 January 2007 - 05:24 PM

That sounds really fast and easy, Chris!

I use a dremel on one strip at the time in a fixture, but it isnīt even close to how fast you managed to get your work done. thumbup.gif

// Mats

#5 Fly1

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Posted 10 January 2007 - 06:40 PM

Looks like an easy way to do it. I never liked the Powell method of replacing the apex with hard wood before scalloping. Do you think the rod has a softer action?

Ken cool.gif
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#6 Carlin

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Posted 10 January 2007 - 06:48 PM

It is tough to say for sure Ken as I haven't made this exact taper before, but if I had to make the call comparing it the other similar tapers I've done, I'd say no, it doesn't feel softer or slower in action, just a little crisper or more responsive. That could've just been the cold though. tongue.gif

Chris

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#7 Fly1

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Posted 10 January 2007 - 07:23 PM

And you can probably chalk up any extra vibrations to shivering... laugh.gif
You can only be lost if you care where your going. - Harvey Morrison

Credit River Cane Rods
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Ken Paterson, Streetsville, Ontario

#8 Jeremy

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Posted 11 January 2007 - 10:22 PM

QUOTE (Carlin @ Jan 10 2007, 07:48 PM)
It is tough to say for sure Ken as I haven't made this exact taper before, but if I had to make the call comparing it the other similar tapers I've done, I'd say no, it doesn't feel softer or slower in action, just a little crisper or more responsive. That could've just been the cold though. tongue.gif

Chris,
From a personal standpoint from doing much casting, rods like Dave Norlings hollowbuilts and the one Jim Reams hollowbuilt I have cast, I'll go down as saying that the hollowbuilding certainly makes a rod a bit crisper-feeling when you cast her, compared to the standard build.

Just my observations from only a few rods......

Jeremy......who's very interested in what yer doin'!! thumbup.gif



#9 gmreeves

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Posted 27 February 2008 - 10:40 AM

In hollow building, is it necessary to add to the taper dimensions to compensate for the removal of the material? I know it sounds like you are defeating the purpose of weight savings if you are just adding more material, but I was reading all of the messages on the tips page and it is mentioned a lot and supposedly still reduces weight. What is everyone's opinion on this? I am about to build an 8' 8wt and think I may try hollowing it with a very similar method to the way Chris did it above. I'm just wondering if I need to add to the taper dimension to keep the rod an 8wt and if so, how do I calculate how much to add?

#10 canerodscom

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Posted 27 February 2008 - 10:34 PM

Nice work Chris, as always. I do something very similar with a 5" random orbit sander. I'll try to remember to take pictures and post them in a day or two.

And gmreeves, you can add a little to the taper to compensate for reduced stiffness. I think I shared with some of you the amounts I add for a coupla rods I make. Usually it's 1% - 1.5% to get similar stiffness. And if you add solid dams every few inches and at the ends, then adding the extra isn't really necessary, imho.

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#11 gmreeves

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Posted 28 February 2008 - 08:52 AM

Thanks Harry. I think I am going to do one of each with the same dimensions and hollow one and not the other. We'll see.

#12 aracane

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Posted 28 February 2008 - 01:11 PM

About 4 years ago at the Bamboo Rodmakers Gathering at Corbett Lake in British Columbia one of the makers demonstrated hollow rod building ising a 1 inch belt sander. If you tape the strips and open them up and mark the areas to be removed then you can sand each strip on the the belt sander. Looked pretty straight forward.

I decided to make an 8 ft 9 in steel head special (F. E. Thomas), 3 piece. I decided to not to leave any "dams" in place but rely on the glued edges to maintain the integrety of the rod sections. I used my jig for making hollow bamboo ferrules to remove the apex leaving .080 in wall thickness. The only part where I left the apex in place was on the tip of the butt and mid sections. Gluing up was no problem. I am now in the process of making up the bamboo ferrules. I plan to use intermediate wraps to re-inforce the sections.

A friend of mine found that his steel head rods were splitting longitudinally on hollow rods that he had fluted.

The test is in the tasting so I will see how the rod holds up when I take it out in March.



#13 johnchanner

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Posted 02 March 2008 - 10:36 AM

Chris;
Brass strips of various thickness are usually available in most hardware stores, use one of the correct thickness as a shim on either side of your strips and just sand down to it. I have a piece of plexiglass with one strip .070 glued to it and the other I just tape down along with the opened section so I can stay tight to both sides., the .070 is the wall thickness I want. I may look for some thinner stuff next time I think of it to take tips down a bit thinner.
john



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