Young Para 14 Taper Options

[jayhake]

Greetings all,

I am straightening and roughing the strips for my first rod, which I plan to build as a PHY Para 14. I have found two versions of the taper on Hexrod and was planning on going with the George Maurer version.

Has anyone built off this taper? If so, I was just curious what people thought of this version, or if anyone had any recommendations or suggestions.

Thanks,
Jay

[Oldstrom]

Chris Carlin has built this several times, that I know of. I cast one of his early tries based on the Mauer version, which shows a much smoother stress curve than the other version on Stetzger's archive and RodDNA. I would email Chris (www.farnorthrodsmiths.com) about his experience with the Para 14. That said, John Pickard (www.pickardrods.com) makes both a 4DT and a 5DT version of this rod. Again, I would completely trust Chris' opinion about a taper for a true 4wt, a true 5wt or a 4/5wt. Good luck and let us know how it turns out.

Oldstrom (alias Greywolf)

[Carlin]

I have made a few of the Maurer versions of the P14 and in my experience it is very parabolic, so be ready for an immediate flex into the handle feel and 'on the ball' timing. It doesn't seem to have the reserve power of some of Young's other parbolic tapers (Perfectionist and P15 for example) so don't expect a lot of wood for fighting bigger fish, and for me at least, for this reason it isn't much of a distance caster. It is very nice in close and will easily and accurately throw just a leader. I like mine with a 4wt line if I am casting over 40' or so, and a 5wt for shorter work.

The one that Mark cast was one that I made with a soft glue, so it was even slower in action than the subsequent versions, though the difference with a stiffer glue wasn't as much as I had expected.

Personally, I think it would be better suited as a 7'6" rod rather than the 7'9", and would benefit from a slightly lighter tip (which, if I remember correctly, Mark agreed) but who am I to argue with Mr. Young.

Hope that helps a little.

[jayhake]

Thanks for the info.

Chris (or anyone else for that matter), would you recommend something different in a 7'6" or 7'9" 5wt? I was also considering a Payne 101, Dickerson 7613, Garrison 209E, and Winston 7652 Montana Made.

Looking for a good general purpose 5wt for Colorado and Wyoming waters. I know there will be more rods to come, just curious on peoples opinions/

[Carlin]

I'll comment on a few and I'm sure you'll get some other opinions as well.

The P101 is too fast for my tastes. It has a very delicate tip and a fat butt. Tons of power and fairly delicate given the tiny tip dimensions, but it lacks in the mid range work where most of my fishing is done. The feeling of the light tip folding over during casting is disconcerting to say the least.

The G209E is more of a 6wt than a 5 IMO, especially up to 40'. However, it is one of my favorite rods due to its easy casting, progressive action. The butt is big enough for big fish, fast water and longer casts. It really excels in my hands at 20-40' and is deadly accurate. A good blend of sensitivity and power, though the tip might benefit from some slight softening.

The 7613 comes in many flavors, my favorite being the LT version that Russ from Golden Witch posted a while back. The taper doesn't seem to be on their website any longer, so I posted it below. It is more of a medium-fast action 5wt than the other 7613 I have messed with, and has a nice little hinge in the upper part of the butt section and just the right blend of tip sensitivity and butt strength. This has been a favorite taper for many people who have tried it. Very forgiving yet powerful if needed.

All this comes with the caveat that it is strictly my opinion, so please take it as such.

7613 LT (Golden Witch)
0.066
0.088
0.102
0.120
0.138
0.153
0.168
0.178
0.196
0.206
0.214
0.232
0.248
0.266
0.278
0.288
0.334
0.350
0.360

[Oldstrom]

Chris, -- so, for someone who wanted the Para 14 taper to cast a bit further and handle larger fish, you'd recommend what I remember you mentioned to me many moons ago: beef up the butt by .006 or so, and lighten the tip a little in the first 10 inches from the tip??? Would it also be a good idea to use a truncated ferrule?

Related, in light of Bogart's recent article on the "golden 30'" in the current issue of Powerfibers, what line distance do you think should be entered in the RodDNA to realistically assess the stress curve? 30', 40', etc ???

Mark

[Jim Lowe]

Aren't Garrisons formulas based on 50'?

[jayhake]

Thanks for the feedback guys. Chris, I too would be interested in your thoughts on modifying the Para14 taper to address the issues you talked about. This is my first bamboo build, so I am wondering if I should try to modify something, or if I should go with a tried and true.

The 7613 was a close second on my list, maybe I should head back that way. What I should probably do is get out of taper paralysis and just build the darn rod.

[Carlin]

[jayhake]

Chris,

Thanks, I appreciate your thoughts on the modified taper, I think I'll give it a shot!

Jay

[Oldstrom]

Chris .... this is excellent! I don't know if you have particular sofware for the taper and/or the graphs, but I will load these into RodDNA and look at the stress curve. You know, some rodmakers keep such modifications secret/proprietary as part of their rod line! Though that's an entirely different discussion. In any case, many thanks.

[Carlin]

Thanks for the confidence Jay. If you are seriously considering using my modification, go with the one below instead. I made a few very minor tweaks over the previous and would be exactly what I'd use were I to make one.

Carlin PHY 14 Mod
.070
.086
.099
.116
.132
.148
.165
.181
.198
.209
.221
.231
.241
.251
.262
.272
.281
.288
.288
.288

Here is a comparison of the two stress curves (modded version in red) using the Excel spreadsheet that I use to make most of my modifications.

[jayhake]

Chris,

Thanks again, I do really apprecaite it. What drew me to the Para 14 is its versatility, the ability to fish very close and at medium distances with it. This covers a great majority of the fishing I do here (Colorado). Having the little extra muscle you've added would be nice though, as I will put it in the drift boat for some dry fly fishing, which often times demands a bit more turning power when you hook a nice fish while floating some fast water.

Again, thanks, let's hope my novice maker skills can do it justice (I have far more confidence in your taper than my skills at this point!).

Jay

[Canewrap]

Chris, would you call the modded P14 more of a 5 than a 4?

[Carlin]

I think it is more of a 5 than a 4. If I were needing to cast really long distances I'd likely use a 4, otherwise I'd have her strung up with a 5 for most fishing situations.