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Mike Brooks' finish formulas


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#1 Carlin

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Posted 11 October 2005 - 12:49 PM

Mike posted a few formulas for finishes on Clark's a while back and I thought they'd be a good addition here.

A formula for an excellent, fast drying (cure time under 1 hour - tack free in 10 minutes) rub on varnish.

Mix 1 quart Waterlox Sanding Sealer with 8 ounces turpentine. Add 8 ounces of a good grade of polyurathane (Varmore R10 is excellent, but Daly's Super Spar or Helmsdale will work). Mix well. Decant into a small 2 ounce bottle becasue this will kick almost overnight in a sealed bottle. (so...tape the lid shut with electrical or plastic tape!) Pour the rest back into a tightly capped can and refrigerate. Wet a rag with this mix and wipe down the rod until it starts to tack. Then, wipe it off. This is an off-the-shelf equivalent of Mike's Stuff and works just great.

This other is a classic rubbing varnish formula that dries a bit slower but is wonderful as a finish for reel seat inserts or rods.

Mix 1 part each of boiled Tung Oil (contains natural Alkyd resins), turpentine, and plain varnish (Waterlox classic or Epifanes are great here). Cap in a can or jar and allow to set for 24 hours, shaking every so often. Then, use as any wipe on varnish. This yeilds a lovely classic golden "glow". On a wood reel seat insert, spun on a lathe, it will dry in no time at all and is just about the toughest stuff you will ever use.

Impregnation solution:

The mix, again, is one gallon of Daly's Ship 'n Shore to one quart of Daly's Super Spar to two quarts of paint thinner. Shake, cap the end of a 5 foot or so section of 1-1/2" PVC pipe and fill with the mix (takes about a quart), stick your sections in for a couple of hours to 4 days and air cure for 2 months (hanging from the rafters of your shop....and they will dry and set arrow straight). Or, you can kick them and cure them in a day or so in a 200 degree rod oven or hot box.

Chris

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#2 Mark Shamburg

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Posted 11 October 2005 - 08:22 PM

What do you use as a kicker for the impregnation solution? Would impregnation time be reduced if the tube were sealed and persurized?

Mark

#3 Carlin

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Posted 11 October 2005 - 08:49 PM

QUOTE
What do you use as a kicker for the impregnation solution?

If you want to speed up the curing of the above soluteion you need to cure the blank in a warmer environment.

I usually do the semi-impregnation where I'll soak the blank overnight, then buff it down with steel wool the next day and let it cure for a week or so. I don't think it changes the action of the blank appreciably though it does waterproof it quite well.

QUOTE
Would impregnation time be reduced if the tube were sealed and persurized?

Almost certainly. Never tried it myself though. dunno.gif Perhaps a vacuum would work even better.

For a great read about pressure impregnating, check out Nunley's experience:
http://www.bamboorod...he_nunley_.html

laugh.gif

Chris

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#4 Mike B

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Posted 17 October 2005 - 08:12 PM

Warning newbie question: When you use impregnation what is the extraction method used? Slow with an extracting motor?? Is the finish as smooth as with spar/poly? How would it affect an already fast rod like a dickerson?

Thanks

Mike

#5 Carlin

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Posted 17 October 2005 - 08:17 PM

QUOTE
When you use impregnation what is the extraction method used?

I just dump the sections out. As the impregnation soaks into the cane, there is no need for careful extraction, or a dust free drying environment. Just wipe down the blank when you take it out, and wipe it down a few more times as the blank cures.

QUOTE
Is the finish as smooth as with spar/poly?

The finish is almost nonexistant and, as such, is only as smooth as the cane. Basically it seals the cane and puts a slight shine to it, but there is no buildup. In order to rejuvinate the finish, simply buff with a rag or a gentle touch with some steel wool.

QUOTE
How would it affect an already fast rod like a dickerson?

It would stiffen it slightly, depending on the length of time in the solution. 'Smoother' is also a term that is often used with impregnation.

Chris

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#6 Fly1

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Posted 21 October 2005 - 09:40 PM

When I impregnated my Waara rod I heated my dip tube to about 220 degrees F and submerged my blank in hot Spar Urethane for about 15 min then removed it and place in an other pipe which I pressurized for 24 hrs at 200 psi. When I removed the blank it was still as wet as when it put it in the pipe. I wiped off the excess and let it dry fully. I rubbed it down with fine steelwool after it was dry and it had a similar waxy appearance as a crayon. I then did several normal over coats of Spar Urethane to give a nice shiny surface to the blank. I think this process added greatly to the strength of the rod because several months later when going fishing with it I caught it in the trunk hinge mechanism of my car and put about an abrupt 45 degree bend on the tip about 4 inches from the tip. I thought for sure I had snapped it off but it slowly went back up to the normal position where it remains today.

Ken cool.gif
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Ken Paterson, Streetsville, Ontario

#7 ledickin

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Posted 16 May 2006 - 11:31 PM

Hi guys,

Particularly interested in the "Formula for an excellent, fast drying (cure time under 1 hour - tack free in 10 minutes) rub on varnish".

Is there a preference for high gloss, satin or low sheen PU or doesnt it matter?

Can the same mix be used to coat wraps?

With this technique, are the guides fitted pre or post the application of the finish.

Thanks.

Leon

#8 Carlin

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Posted 17 May 2006 - 12:29 PM

QUOTE
Is there a preference for high gloss, satin or low sheen PU or doesnt it matter?

Probably high gloss. If I remember correctly, satin and low-gloss finishes are the same as high gloss but include an extra additive that cuts the shine.

QUOTE
Can the same mix be used to coat wraps?

It probably could, but you would want to use very light coats. If you try it let us know how it turns out.

QUOTE
With this technique, are the guides fitted pre or post the application of the finish.

It is applied to a raw blank before the guides are wrapped.

Chris

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#9 Carlin

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Posted 17 May 2006 - 12:31 PM

Here is another method of impregnating that Mike posted on Clark's a couple weeks back:

QUOTE

Actually, this [impregnating technique] is very similar to the old varnish impregnation techniques used as far back as the 1920's. Almost anything like this will work just fine. A "take off" on this is to use one of the new Acrylic plastic floor finishes. The best of these I have run into is Varathane's new Diamond Exterior Wood finish. To get it to penetrate you will need to make an inexpensive vacuum tube. Buy a length of 1-1/2" diamater brass pipe and matching end caps. The one on the closed end, you simply solder in place. The one on the "open" end has a sleave that is soldered and it screws on. You canbuy extra brass screw caps for about $2 a piece. Drill a small hole in the center of one of these and attach it tto a simple vacuum pump. You can buy new ones of these for around $100. Panache (the air-paint gun peope make a nice one). Stick in one to four blanks and allow to just set in the solution for a couple of hours with the cap on. Then, attach the pump and pump air out, creating a partial vacuum (the PSI really isn't critical here). Leave the blanks in the vacuum for 8 hours or so, checking from time to time to make sure that the vacuum stays. The vacuum literally sucks the finsh into the blank. Then, simply air dry or bake in an oven. The fixture and pump will cost you about $125 total iof you buy the parts new; so this method is dirt cheap.



Chris

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#10 ledickin

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Posted 17 May 2006 - 06:40 PM

Hi Carlin,

Thanks for the info. I was doing some research to recover from my efforts on the application of finish on my current rod. Looks like I wont have to use the rub on finish but will keep the infor for future reference.

Had applied spray on high gloss PU to raw blank and then used the same for the wraps. I was struggling with a few runs and sanded back between coats but couldnt get an acceptable finish.

Ended up (last night) applying a spray on satin PU over the top and the result is now satisfactory.

FYI.Wraps were done using UniThread 6/0 fly tying thread.

Will post picture when finished.

Cheers,

Leon
(Australia)

#11 mcb99

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Posted 05 August 2008 - 01:18 PM

There is a gizmo that any good restaurant that sells good wine will have. Its a wine bottle pump....sucks the air right out of the bottle via a hand pump. It uses a special cork that has a one way seal on it. I bet the whole contraption costs 12 -20 bucks if that. Now the cork will fit nicely in 5/8 copper tube...which would fit one , maybe two rod sections quite nicely as well. and the amount of impreg solution you need to fill the tube is prolly 1/2 quart at most. I dont know what kind of pressure the pump will vaccum out, but when i open one of those bottles it hisses nicely. When I'm at the point of dipping my next blank i will try it and post results, unless someone beats me to it.

#12 mcb99

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Posted 05 September 2008 - 11:57 PM

OK, I tried the Wine Bottle Vacuum pump method and it seemed to work just fine.Stuck the vacuum cork into a tube of pvc think it was 3/4 inch. added 2 rods I had finished and pumped out the air...next day i opened it and it hissed as i took out the cork, meaning the vacuum lasted. now how many psi of vacuum it creates, i dunno. but for 15 $ total it created a vacuum that lasted while the solution did its stuff.

#13 MJF

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Posted 30 August 2009 - 10:18 AM

You could also try a Mity Vac. They are great for bleeding clutch masters and should work good for this also. I will try mine when I make my saltwater rod. You can get them at Harbor Freight for about $30.00.





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