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Spline, spine or NOT to spine, that is a the question


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#1 rhossack

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Posted 28 August 2017 - 09:47 AM

It's been pretty quiet here on the western front so let's see if I can stir the pot a little bit.

 

I found this quote a few days from a Bamboo rodmaker I know and trust his ingenuity, his ability to think outside the normal "rod building box", an outstanding fisherman and an outstanding fly tier.

 

Let the pot be stirred!

******

 

I had a graphite rod given to me to test on the White River.

 

Every time I caught a fish the rod seemed to want to twist in my hand. Checked the spine and it was 90* off.

 

I mentioned this to the owner of the company and he said "we put the guides on the straightest part of the rod so when the person using and sight down the rod it makes the guides line up better."

 

So much for putting the guides on the spine.


“He who is without sin let them cast the first stone and make sure it’s a biggun, cause not many are going to come”.

#2 Goduster

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Posted 28 August 2017 - 11:07 AM

Never seen anyone fight a fish dead straight on to actually utilize the effect of the spine. Very few people case in a direct plane related to the spine. It is also the weakest point of blank in terms of dead lift capabilities. On conventional builds the guide height will often negate whether the rod will roll or not even though it may be on the spine


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#3 rhossack

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Posted 28 August 2017 - 11:12 AM

Never seen anyone fight a fish dead straight on to actually utilize the effect of the spine. Very few people case in a direct plane related to the spine. It is also the weakest point of blank in terms of dead lift capabilities. On conventional builds the guide height will often negate whether the rod will roll or not even though it may be on the spine

 

I  understand that, but evidently, he was and could detect it.

 

I've never tried the "straightest axes" and just do the spine thingy.  But then I'm not building rods to sell and I'm not into ascetics where someone would eyeball the rod plus I do enough weird stuff as it is.


“He who is without sin let them cast the first stone and make sure it’s a biggun, cause not many are going to come”.

#4 Goduster

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Posted 28 August 2017 - 12:20 PM

Still probably one of the most controversial topics related to rod building. My answer to it is build which ever way you feel yourself is the best and you have a comfort level with


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http://www.southwest...l-seat-hardware

 

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#5 rhossack

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Posted 28 August 2017 - 05:26 PM

Still probably one of the most controversial topics related to rod building. My answer to it is build which ever way you feel yourself is the best and you have a comfort level with

 

I totally agree with you.


“He who is without sin let them cast the first stone and make sure it’s a biggun, cause not many are going to come”.

#6 jfred17

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Posted 29 August 2017 - 02:51 PM

New to the building game but this is what I have started to do. Find the straightest line on the tip top section, the other 3 or 2 sections I have found to mostly be straight anyway. So I get the straightest on the tip top and mark it, then I add the next section to it and find the natural bend of the rod and mess with it until it matches up to the tip top mark. Then I put the third section on and do the same, then finally the the last section on. The tip top is on it's straightest axis and the rest of the sections bend naturally to it. 



#7 steeldrifter

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Posted 29 August 2017 - 05:47 PM

This months issue of Tom Kirkman's Rodmaker magazine actually has an article about spine vs straightest axis in it. I think Tom summed it up the best I have heard to date with a simple sentence when in the article he says-

 

"Pressuring and flexing a naked rod blank by hand done not in any way approximate what happens when a fish loads the rod via a line running through guides attached to the rod blank. These are two entirely different scenarios. Unless you plan to tie the line directly to the rod tip of the naked blank and go fishing, you can throw all the arguments and opinions regarding the supposed importance of spine right out the window".


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#8 Chris Sparkman

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Posted 30 August 2017 - 06:34 AM

I've seen several rods built by guys new to rod building, and on some the spine was clearly missed, but those guys take them fishing, catch fish and they're as proud as they can be.  It probably makes a small difference, but it's really no big deal.



#9 Ron Mexico

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Posted 30 August 2017 - 11:20 AM

I would always spine them when I first started. But, over the years I've changed my thoughts and they match more to the article that Steeldrifter posted. I build lots of multi-piece fiberglass fly rods and I do always line up each section to make sure the natural curve is going the same direction.



#10 rhossack

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Posted 01 September 2017 - 12:37 PM

I've seen several rods built by guys new to rod building, and on some the spine was clearly missed, but those guys take them fishing, catch fish and they're as proud as they can be.  It probably makes a small difference, but it's really no big deal.

Ok, Mr. Math Teacher Extraordinaire,  The person who built the first flyrod blank I ever had (and still have and still one of the nicest casting rods I have).

 

Did you do the build on the spine or straightest axis scenario?.  Or was this before you ever knew there was a problem area to be debated?

 

I really need to re-wrap the guide on that rod so I can re-use it.  You'd think the finish would last longer than this before the threads started unraveling.


“He who is without sin let them cast the first stone and make sure it’s a biggun, cause not many are going to come”.

#11 Chris Sparkman

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Posted 01 September 2017 - 06:19 PM

 

I've seen several rods built by guys new to rod building, and on some the spine was clearly missed, but those guys take them fishing, catch fish and they're as proud as they can be.  It probably makes a small difference, but it's really no big deal.

Ok, Mr. Math Teacher Extraordinaire,  The person who built the first flyrod blank I ever had (and still have and still one of the nicest casting rods I have).

 

Did you do the build on the spine or straightest axis scenario?.  Or was this before you ever knew there was a problem area to be debated?

 

I really need to re-wrap the guide on that rod so I can re-use it.  You'd think the finish would last longer than this before the threads started unraveling.

 

 

I tried to build it on the spine, but of course I was a rookie at the time so I might have missed it.  As I recall it was a great caster anyway.  Yeah, after 36  years it should still be like brand new. 



#12 Carl Z

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Posted 04 September 2017 - 08:12 AM

I build on the spline (weekest part of the rod) out of habit and always question why.  I build mostly fly rods, mostly 8wt and under.   On most new blanks, it;s hard to find the spline in anything but the top half of the rod.  The faster the rod the less pronounced the spline is.

 

I do think it's interesting that someone noticed the rod trying to turn on them when fighting a fish.  

 

On deep flexing blanks the spline is far more pronounced.   And boy, can you stir the pot.



#13 tedshuck

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Posted 05 September 2017 - 01:04 PM

A few years ago I built two Sage Xi2 8wt rods, one for a friend and one for myself.  I built his on the spine and mine on the straightest axis, as marked by Sage on the blank.  The one built on the spine casts more accurately and consistently than the one built on the straightest axis.  I have built all other rods since on the spine.

 

Ted



#14 rhossack

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Posted 06 September 2017 - 03:52 PM

 

 

I've seen several rods built by guys new to rod building, and on some the spine was clearly missed, but those guys take them fishing, catch fish and they're as proud as they can be.  It probably makes a small difference, but it's really no big deal.

Ok, Mr. Math Teacher Extraordinaire,  The person who built the first flyrod blank I ever had (and still have and still one of the nicest casting rods I have).

 

Did you do the build on the spine or straightest axis scenario?.  Or was this before you ever knew there was a problem area to be debated?

 

I really need to re-wrap the guide on that rod so I can re-use it.  You'd think the finish would last longer than this before the threads started unraveling.

 

 

I tried to build it on the spine, but of course I was a rookie at the time so I might have missed it.  As I recall it was a great caster anyway.  Yeah, after 36  years it should still be like brand new. 

 

36 years?  You sure about that?  Wow, must have used an inferior varnish on it.  Yes, it is on the spine.

 

No need to fix it.  Our September camping trip Blake and I take is officially canceled.  The smoke from the fires is terrible at his place and worse here.


“He who is without sin let them cast the first stone and make sure it’s a biggun, cause not many are going to come”.

#15 Chris Sparkman

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Posted 07 September 2017 - 03:41 PM

This is an interesting thread.  I guess if a fisherman can cast better than me, and most can, the spine makes a difference.






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