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Get it about Perfectionist now


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#1 Canewrap

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Posted 11 December 2012 - 05:55 PM

Been finishing out a clone of a 4wt. Perfectionist that uses stepdowns and has the .275 butt. Finally got to the point where I could tape on the guides and cast it and man is it ever butter smooth in the way it casts. The one I finished out last year has a swelled butt added to the taper and to me it spoils the action. The swelled butt makes for a pretty good dry fly rod, but just doesn't have that butter smooth feel that this one does. Hopefully, wrapping on the guides won't alter this much as I've had rods that changed character slightly after wrapping on the guides, usually a little tighter and faster.

Update: Yep, wrapping on the guides changed the character of the rod. It's now your typical fast dry fly rod. Not what I was looking for. I wonder if shaving a few thousands over the whole rod would give it that original feel, once the guides were wrapped onto the rod? Well, will be a few years before I can test that theory as I don't have enough time right now to be making my own blanks.

It's what happens to a rod once I wrap the guides on that has convinced me that the old rods with the intermediates were not wrapped that way to somehow protect the rod from delamination, but rather as a way of tuning the rod, tightening up the action. Hide glue is one of the strongest glues there is, luthiers will attest to that and as long as the varnish coat is not compromised moisture is not that much of a concern. No, I think its one of those tricks of the trade that has been lost to time and explained away with some silly theory.

#2 matt_a

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Posted 13 December 2012 - 12:20 PM

QUOTE (Canewrap @ Dec 11 2012, 03:55 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Been finishing out a clone of a 4wt. Perfectionist that uses stepdowns and has the .275 butt. Finally got to the point where I could tape on the guides and cast it and man is it ever butter smooth in the way it casts. The one I finished out last year has a swelled butt added to the taper and to me it spoils the action. The swelled butt makes for a pretty good dry fly rod, but just doesn't have that butter smooth feel that this one does. Hopefully, wrapping on the guides won't alter this much as I've had rods that changed character slightly after wrapping on the guides, usually a little tighter and faster.

Update: Yep, wrapping on the guides changed the character of the rod. It's now your typical fast dry fly rod. Not what I was looking for. I wonder if shaving a few thousands over the whole rod would give it that original feel, once the guides were wrapped onto the rod? Well, will be a few years before I can test that theory as I don't have enough time right now to be making my own blanks.

It's what happens to a rod once I wrap the guides on that has convinced me that the old rods with the intermediates were not wrapped that way to somehow protect the rod from delamination, but rather as a way of tuning the rod, tightening up the action. Hide glue is one of the strongest glues there is, luthiers will attest to that and as long as the varnish coat is not compromised moisture is not that much of a concern. No, I think its one of those tricks of the trade that has been lost to time and explained away with some silly theory.


Thanks for the update...I too share the theory of intermediate wraps "stiffening up" a rods action....I know your searching for the holy grail, i.e. perfect 4 wt but what about line up to a 5..might slow her down a bit and bring back some of that buttery smooth feel.



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#3 Tim Anderson

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Posted 13 December 2012 - 01:30 PM

One possibility is that the tape holding on the guides was a bit heavier than what your wrapping ended up being. Just a little bit of extra weight, particularly out towards the tip can change the feel of a rod quite a bit. Matt_a's suggestion of going up a line weight might just do the trick. Even a different 4-weight line might help.

Tim

#4 Canewrap

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Posted 13 December 2012 - 02:16 PM

QUOTE (Tim Anderson @ Dec 13 2012, 02:30 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
One possibility is that the tape holding on the guides was a bit heavier than what your wrapping ended up being. Just a little bit of extra weight, particularly out towards the tip can change the feel of a rod quite a bit. Matt_a's suggestion of going up a line weight might just do the trick. Even a different 4-weight line might help.

Tim


Really appreciate the feedback and the ideas. I did try a line that is approximately .5 heavier than the first line I used and it didn't really help, still no buttery feel, just overly fast response.

Now, for real irony, get this. I decided to take the same .5 heavier line (4.5 wt. if you will) and try it on the older Perfectionist I have, that has a swelled butt (goes to .310 instead of .275 in front of the grip and has a few extra thousands in a few stations of the tip) and.... drumroll.... this rod has the smooth feel with the 4.5 line (recent acquisition) that I experienced and was looking for in the copy of Sante G's Perfectionist. Just goes to show how varied the character is for these rods and how very important is to experiment with a variety of lines before you give up and sell or trade out a rod. Guess which one goes on the auction block now.

#5 Canewrap

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Posted 11 July 2014 - 11:17 PM

I know it has been 2 years since this was posted, but I need to make an update to what I discovered. Mr. Anderson was indeed correct. Before I was completely done with the rod, I dipped it with another coat of varnish and it stiffened up on me a bit, so that only a WF5 would seem to work. However, I decided to put a thin coat of epoxy on the wraps to strengthen them and protect them without having to put multiple coats of varnish on. Well, the slight additional weight to only the wraps, without introducing any more stiffness to the blank, has fulfilled the rod's original promise and it's now a wonderful 4 weight, with a sweet medium fast action that is perfect for medium streams.



#6 Tim Anderson

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Posted 12 July 2014 - 01:00 PM

Glad to hear that all worked out the way you wished. 

 

Just for additional information about weight distribution on a rod, Leon Hanson has shown that amazing things can be achieved by reducing the weight towards the tip of a rod.  Going in the direction you have, Rolf Baginski mentions in his book "Split-Cane Rods -- Bamboo Treasures" that simply using a heavier tiptop can make a rod drop one line weight.

 

Tim



#7 Canewrap

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Posted 12 July 2014 - 05:12 PM

Hi Tim, glad to see that you're still reading this forum. Yeah, maybe I need to work up an article on tuning rods through finish and hardware. I haven't seen anyone write a piece like that, but then I don't subscribe to Ron Barch's Planing Form newsletter and it could have been covered there.





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