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Rusty planing forms - The horror of it all


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#1 Swamp Fly

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Posted 14 April 2015 - 08:47 PM

I just inherited of a set of planing forms that a good friend had inherited from another mutual friend of ours who machined them.  Grumble, it's starting, I'm getting to that age...

 

Anyway, the forms are well made.  Dan was a master machinist/toolmaker and if something wasn't dead nuts on then it didn't see the light of day.  Period.  Unfortunately the forms lived in a non air conditioned beach side garage for the last few years, so they are singing the oxidation blues.  It's not horrific, but there may be some light pitting along with a bunch of surface rust.  I just took possession this weekend, so I have not looked at them too much but I did cringe when I put them in my truck.  Before I do anything I wanted to check with the forum and get some suggestions since this can't be the first set of forms to get some rust on them.  Do's/don'ts?  My tentative plan is to use an abrasive pad (ie scotch bright, 3m, etc.) using some light oil as a lubricant such as WD40 (weasel pi$$) and then degrease.  If that is a good plan, how do I protect them to prevent more rust?  In other words I need some care and feeding instructions as well please.

 

Thanks



#2 canerodscom

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Posted 15 April 2015 - 09:06 AM

If there is more than a cursory amount of rust you will not be able to remove it with abrasive pads or steel wool, but that is a good idea to start.  If you can remove all but the pitting with abrasive pads or steel wool, stop there.  You might want to use kerosene as a lubricant.

 

If the abrasive / steel wool isn't enough, I think I might begin by removing each screw and oiling it with 3-in-One oil or another good light machine oil.  Do not use anything with silicone in it.  If there are dowel pins, you might remove them one at a time and lightly oil them as well.  Next I think I might improvise a very flat sanding block of some sort...  perhaps a piece of plexiglass, or even a block of steel.  You'll want something about 1"x3"x10", though size isn't critical.  Wrap the sanding block with some 400g wet/dry sandpaper, again lubricated with kerosene.  Make long strokes from one end to the other so that equal amounts of material are removed along the length of the forms.  You will go through plenty of sandpaper.  If this is going to work you will know it quickly... let's say 10 minutes in.  Again, if all but the pitting is gone, quit.

 

If the sandpaper is not going to be aggressive enough then move to a 12"-14" vixen file.  They're available from amazon.com  Again, make long passes so material is removed evenly.  Use a triangle file glued to a block of wood to very, very gently remove rust from the v-grooves.  VERY gently.  Minor pitting should not be a big problem.  Once the surface rust is removed, stop.

 

May I ask where you are, SwampFly?  I'm in Louisiana and find rust a persistent opponent.  (Your moniker might imply Louisiana) If you're in my neighborhood I would be glad to try to help.

 

Harry


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#3 Iconoclast

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Posted 15 April 2015 - 03:40 PM

Swamp Fly,

 

Not sure what you guys call it over there, but to keep them from rusting I use a product made by CRC called Soft Seal. Then I clean and rub down with CRC Brakecleen  before setting.

 

Where I live any bare metal will start corroding within days, and I've no issues with the above.

 

Cheers


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#4 Swamp Fly

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Posted 15 April 2015 - 08:33 PM

Hi Harry. Thanks for the info.  My swamp is the 'Glades here in SW Florida.  The closest I get to your neck of the woods is just south of Hattiesburg MS for a week around March every year.

 

Like I said I really have not had the chance to look at them yet.  I had already thought about PB Blaster (mostly kerosene) as a lube, I'll use that then. No silicone, got it.  A piece of steel is not an issue, at work we go through 900 tons a year.  My house weighs less than the scrap plate we generate.  I also have access to the machine shop if needed.  I'll need some help with the machines though, since I know more about turret punches than millls.  I actually own some Vixen files, draw filing is something I am familiar with.  I might talk to the guys at work to take off a thousandth or so if it comes to that though, much easier and my triseps won't hate as much.  I also already have a wood block with a triangle file embedded in it.  Good to know that I can use it to clean up.    I have most of the tools I need including a drying oven and heat treating oven. The fact of the mater is if I want I can make a new set at work in short order, but these have sentimental value and I really don't think they are too far gone.  Wish me luck.

 

Iconoclast, thanks as well.  We use CRC products at work, I'll poke around. I personally like LPS 3 for longer storage and Boshied for things I use semi frequently. Brake cleaner will certainly clean of any residue quickly, I should have remembered that.



#5 fishbum

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Posted 15 April 2015 - 10:39 PM

You don't have to remove the pits. Just get the surface rust smooth. Use a sanding block and some 360 aluminum oxide wet/dry paper and either kerosene or WD-40 as a lub. use a triangle slip stone and oil to clean up the groove. You don't want to remove metal, just the oxide.

 

Jerry



#6 canerodscom

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Posted 16 April 2015 - 09:26 AM

Florida huh?  I know a coupla rod makers there if you feel like you MUST go see someone else's shop.

 

I would be careful trying to mill a hair or two off.  Fly milling or end milling will be  prone to leave burrs in the groove area that can cause all kinds of evil problems.  Since you have access to machine tools, look up a surface grinder with a long, long bed and really good operator.

 

Or just follow Jerry's advice.  No need to make this harder than it really is.

 

Harry

 

 

I also have access to the machine shop if needed.  I'll need some help with the machines though, since I know more about turret punches than millls.  I actually own some Vixen files, draw filing is something I am familiar with.  I might talk to the guys at work to take off a thousandth or so if it comes to that though, much easier and my triseps won't hate as much.  I also already have a wood block with a triangle file embedded in it.   that.


Harry Boyd
[email protected]
http://www.canerods.com
Heat Treating Fixtures and Ovens
(318)435-5476 home phone
(318)282-1825 Shop/cell phone

#7 fishbum

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Posted 16 April 2015 - 04:08 PM

Swamp fly

 

You will appreciate not having the glare in your face of shinny forms.

 

Jerry



#8 Swamp Fly

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Posted 16 April 2015 - 09:12 PM

Well, it's what I hoped.  I took a better look at the forms this evening and after scrubbing with a very fine Scotch Brite pad I'm just seeing staining. It's going to take some elbow grease but once I get rid of all of the areas that "catch" the pad I should be good to go. Most areas just get shiny right away, but there are some spots that take a bit more time and a fresh area of pad to go down to metal.  There will be some dark areas, but I'm not going to loose any real material.  They will have an interesting "patina" is all.  Caught Them just in time I think, another year and I might have been crying. 

 

Is there any reason I can't put a layer of paste wax down after I clean everything up?  I should be able to strip that off easily once I get a chance to use the forms.

 

Harry, I'd love to see what other people are doing.  Kind of pointless right now though, it will be a while before I even know what questions to ask.  As to using a surface grinder, that is the one tool I really wish we had that we don't.  We have three full sized CNC mills, a full sized CNC lathe plus manual machines, three turret punches, but no surface grinder.  Kind of a bummer.

 

Jerry,  I'm keeping this simple.  Some time and a light touch is all that is needed here.

 

Thanks a bunch guys.  I'll let you know when I get them pulled apart and cleaned up all the way.





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