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#1 HansenRods

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Posted 24 April 2005 - 09:38 PM

lookin to possibly to get into making split cane rodsthis summer or the next but i want to skip a step and go straight to quads seem like a supirior desing and a little less work (two fewer strips to plane) once i figure out the basics

so here's the mother of all questions where can i get quad forms relatively cheap

don't need gigantic ones the largest rod i think i will build is an 8' or 8'6" 5 wt

looking mostly to make small two piece dry fly rods

#2 germanbrown

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Posted 25 April 2005 - 10:14 AM

sean - the only quad forms i know of being built for sale are by Jeff Wagner. I'm sure they're very nice forms, but they're pricey - $1550.

I would suggest starting out making hex rods - there's a lot more info and forms out there for hex rods. I'm not sure quads would actually be easier to make. in fact i think they might be more difficult.
"A three or four ounce split bamboo rod, with a well balanced reel, a tapered casting line, a leader of the proper fineness, and a well tied fly, or flies, is one of the most perfectly designed and executed triumphs of human artisanship."

-Bliss Perry

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#3 Fly1

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Posted 25 April 2005 - 11:20 AM

The trouble with quad forms you need two matching forms or matching halves so they are difficult to make. A friend of mine in BC has made a few. He was selling them for $600 a set but that was a few years ago. I have plans for a quad planing form that just uses 2 bars rather than the normal 3 or 4 bar style but I haven't built one so I don't know if it actually works right.

Ken cool.gif
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#4 Boomaniac

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Posted 25 April 2005 - 03:28 PM

Quad rods...I had the pleasure of hearing Jeff Wagner talk for an hour about his adventure in making Quads, how he felt it was going to be the next big seller, how complex it is to get TWO sets of forms to make the rod, how you have to MAKE special SQUARE ferules, How you have to do the math and convert standard rods into Quads...after all of his complex talk...he laughed and said..he had not sold one in a year and he felt they fished just like a standard hex rod.
After hearing Jeff talk, my interest in making them left pretty fast. They are interesting, but actually quite a bit more work than a standard hex rod.
Just something for you to think about.

#5 HansenRods

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Posted 25 April 2005 - 09:31 PM

ok then there goes the quad idea

next question does someone have the blue prints so to speak on how to make forms for hexes

i've got a machinist friend who i may have build them for me biggrin.gif

#6 Fly1

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Posted 25 April 2005 - 10:57 PM

Quad forms are basically the same as a hex except you have to make two forms only just cut a 45 degree bevel one of the bars leaving the other one square. Then make another mirror image form. The enamel side of the cane strip goes agains the straight sides of the two forms. So you have to match the tapers setting on both sets of forms.

[>l ] [ l<]

Ken cool.gif
You can only be lost if you care where your going. - Harvey Morrison

Credit River Cane Rods
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Ken Paterson, Streetsville, Ontario

#7 Carlin

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Posted 26 April 2005 - 10:03 AM

You could always dump a couple grand and get a Morgan's Hand Mill. With the proper attachments you can do either hexes or quads (or pentas for that matter).

Chris

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#8 HansenRods

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Posted 26 April 2005 - 01:51 PM

why do you need two form for the quads?

couldn't you just turn the form in a 180 and reset the taper?

also what is the angle of the v in the form for hexes

the set screws are 5 inches apart and it tapers .001" per inch

#9 Carlin

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Posted 26 April 2005 - 02:04 PM

You could flip the form 180* and reset the form, but since you have to flip the strip a bunch of times on each strip as you plane to keep things even and the angles accurate, you would be resetting your forms ad naseum. Figure you flip each strip 12 times while planing (in reality it is more than that), 18 strips for a 2x2 rod, would mean you would have to reset your forms 218 times for that one rod. Setting the forms takes a minimum of 5 minutes, which would translate to 18 hours of labor in just setting the forms. You get the idea. This is why quad forms are made the way they are in pairs or with 2 sides. wink.gif

The angle in a standard planing form is an equilateral triangle with a 60* V groove. A quad form V groove is an isosceles right triangle with a bottom angle of 45*.

Chris

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#10 Carlin

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Posted 26 April 2005 - 02:33 PM

Boomaniac,

I also had a brief chat with Jeff regarding quads and asked his advice. He said simply "You don't want to go down the quad road.". laugh.gif

Chris

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#11 Kaboom

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Posted 27 April 2005 - 08:32 AM

Try this site for 'BLUEPRINTS"

thomaspenrose.com

Brad

#12 routta

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Posted 27 April 2005 - 05:51 PM

has anyone made / use maple planing blocks. not just roughing, but finish also?

are they a cost effective option over steel? especially for a dozen or so rods a year.

#13 Carlin

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Posted 27 April 2005 - 05:56 PM

Yep. In fact, Golden Witch used to sell them, at least for hex rods, and even had a few listed on eBay a couple months ago. But, for a dozen or so rods a year, you'd probably be better off getting a set of Colorado Bootstrap or Blauvelt forms. dunno.gif For a couple a year, maple should work just fine.

I have heard that they work well as long as they are made properly. The only other thing is you have to be a bit more careful when planing so as not to nick them. A nick on a metal form never goes very deep, but on a wood form it could be catastrophe!

Chris

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#14 HansenRods

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Posted 27 April 2005 - 09:56 PM

thanks kaboom that is exactly what i was looking for

#15 millerwb

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Posted 28 April 2005 - 09:56 AM

This is an interesting idea for wooden planing forms. I think that it will likely be what I build first to see if I enjoy this bamboo building process. He recommends using a plane with a grove in the sole to keep from nicking the form. I also have all of what I need to build this form except for the adjusting screws and the starp metal.

Brian



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